Listen to it all, but don’t miss the question at 17:50 and Girard’s answer up to 20:17. Girard’s quote regarding Islam at 22:47 is also profoundly true. But if Girard is right on the origin and role of scapegoating relative to the Christian gospel, then penal substitution is without question to be rejected.
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Another great 5-part interview with Girard: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-scapegoat-the-ideas-of-rené-girard-part-1-1.3474195
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