Listen to it all, but don’t miss the question at 17:50 and Girard’s answer up to 20:17. Girard’s quote regarding Islam at 22:47 is also profoundly true. But if Girard is right on the origin and role of scapegoating relative to the Christian gospel, then penal substitution is without question to be rejected.
Another great 5-part interview with Girard: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/the-scapegoat-the-ideas-of-rené-girard-part-1-1.3474195
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